Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Workday has built itself up in a certain direction over the years, where now it's leaning more towards wine to become a platform tool.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: If you've ever felt stuck as the workday person, this episode is for you. Melissa Chanka has been in the workday ecosystem since 2009. She's worked partner side, customer side, and today she's director of People Tech at Expedia Group. And she's one of those rare people who stayed in this space for nearly two decades without losing her spark.
In this conversation, Melissa gets real about what burnout actually is and why it's usually not workday. How great leaders can build better rapport and trust with their teams, what workday's platform shift really means for customers, and why most executives asking for AI really mean automation. And fair warning, her story about transporting rescue dogs might just hit you in the gut.
So let's get into it.
Well, we are so excited for this next episode of Wavemakers. Today's guest is Melissa Chanka, who has been actually in the ecosystem since 2009.
Melissa has been on the partner side and she's been on the customer side and just brings a wealth of knowledge and industry experience, and we are so excited. Melissa is currently the director of People Tech over at Expedia Group.
So, Melissa, thank you so much for being here. We were really excited to have you on today.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: Yes, you did correct me.
2009, that's just. Wow, that is a long time. You have seen some changes. It is.
[00:01:46] Speaker A: I certainly have. It's been a wild ride.
Yeah. 2009 to. What are we in 2026?
[00:01:53] Speaker C: I'm trying to think about what I was doing, even 2009 in general, you know, I mean.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it's hard to remember.
[00:02:03] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting.
Wow.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: Wow. Yeah, it's. It's. And so I was gonna, you know, just kind of start out as you have seen the ecosystem evolve and all the changes and as we kind of dive in, you know, how do you keep that excitement going and motivation and energy for being in this industry for so long?
[00:02:27] Speaker A: You know, for me, I just really love it. Like, I have loved not only workday, but HR technology for so long, and it just continues to evolve. You know, workday was fresh and new in 2009.
Now, like Workday Illuminate and everything, AI is fresh and new, and you. You just keep growing with all the different things that's change and evolve in just the technology landscape.
Partly it's the technology, partly it's just the people I've been able to work with.
I've been able to lead some incredible teams, including my current team here at Expedia Group, and I have made some phenomenal friendships throughout the course of the years.
It's been really just a joyful journey for me, and it's. It's blessed me in just a variety of ways that it just keeps me coming back for more, you know, just always.
I've never. Someone who has Sunday scaries. I love showing up to work every Monday and, you know, dealing with whatever.
[00:03:36] Speaker C: Did you do other tech? What? Or did you do other HR tech before getting into workday?
[00:03:42] Speaker A: So, interestingly, I.
So my. My bachelor's degree is in management information systems, and I did web development for a pharmaceutical company right out of college. Somehow ended up in hr. I don't exactly remember how I ended up in hr, but I did.
So I did web development, and then now my team that I lead is responsible for ServiceNow, AWS, and Workday, so I am able to learn and understand about each of those technologies as well. So.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Always learning.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Always learning. Yeah. I'm a. You don't see my room now, but it's. I'm just surrounded by books. I am.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: Oh, we're gonna go there.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: I am someone who just.
[00:04:25] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: Okay. I was gonna say I'm just someone to learn. And, you know, I love it.
[00:04:30] Speaker C: I love it. You just, like, you know, watching how people's careers evolve and how they end up somewhere, you know, completely different from where they started. It's just. I love. I love that.
So.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: Yeah, me too. And I've been, you know, I think what has worked for me is that I've just always been open to it. Like, I've never. I have never had a career plan. Like, I'm going to just say it out. Some people have a 3, 5 year 10. They want to do this. That is not me. Melissa hasn't had the slightest idea, you know, in some cases, what she's wanted to do over the years, but I've just let it ebb and flow, and I've just followed where it's led me.
You know, there's this lyric in a Pearl Jam song that's like, I'll. I'll ride the wave where it takes me. And that's what I've done with my career. And it's. It's truly just been phenomenal in what it's given to me.
[00:05:20] Speaker B: And she threw out the wave. The whole workday wave.
[00:05:25] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:05:26] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: And I'm a music person, so I'm gonna have to know what. What song exactly that is by Pearl Jam after this podcast release.
[00:05:33] Speaker A: The song release.
[00:05:34] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I will remember that one.
[00:05:36] Speaker C: I love it.
[00:05:37] Speaker B: That's funny. Riding that wave.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: Yes. Yep.
[00:05:40] Speaker B: Well, and just to piggyback that, because, you know, we talk to people all day long that have been in the ecosystem a long time.
And just a question, you know, for those that maybe are feeling, I guess, not as motivated or a little burned out or just, you know, what's next, you know, what kind of advice do you have for them, you know, if they're not feeling or figuring out what, you know, what path to take next?
[00:06:10] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I think a lot of times the burnout comes from always being considered the workday person, and that sometimes becomes your identity and you get stuck in that mold and you're always, you know, the. Always the person who either your company or your friends or whomever go to. Because, you know, workday, you know this, and you have to figure out how to break yourself out of that. It's okay. You can be the best workday person you can be for the entirety of your career because it's going to take you in 10 different directions if you allow it to. You have to embrace the change. You have to embrace the technology and where it's going, Learn how to code an extend app, figure out, orchestrate, understand all this cool technology that workday seems to be purchasing, like higher, right. Paradox, adaptive, jump into those. And that's what keeps you fresh and learning. And if you want to break out of being the workday person, because for the people that I've known, that tends to be where they burn out. It's just they're always the go to workday person because they've gone so deep. Figure out how to break out of it. That's what I did when I accepted this role at my current company.
I loved workday, but I wanted to do a little bit more, too. And this role gave me the opportunity to lean into some servicenow experience that I had at my last company and plus build out data engineering as well.
That is probably like one of the first times I was really strategic about my career. And okay, I was a little, you know, I faced that burnout a little bit of being the workday person, but I still loved workday, but I wanted to do just a little bit more. So I figured out a path to get that little.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: Well, I know we're. We are rusty as far as technology. No, I was waiting on the Send you into science.
I'll keep going. I have no problem.
[00:08:12] Speaker C: I'll keep going.
[00:08:12] Speaker B: I know Carl was going to hit on the AI piece.
[00:08:15] Speaker C: No, I actually, I had another question in the cloud.
All right, are we going back to that then?
[00:08:20] Speaker B: Well, I don't know. We're just talking. I didn't know if you were popping in.
[00:08:23] Speaker C: All right, I have a question with
[00:08:25] Speaker B: technology and AI or cloud and whatever.
[00:08:28] Speaker C: All right, I've got a question, actually. So. All right. Given that you've been in the ecosystem for ever, you know, I mean, what do you. Where do you think we are from a life cycle perspective? And, you know, it was something that I kind of fell into last year. I was doing some research on some stuff and AI was giving me all this additional. This is how Salesforce went through theirs. It's how SAP went through theirs. And it was kind of comparing it to where workday is because people ask all the time, is this going to last?
And obviously you just hit on expand outside of just workday. But kind of, what are your thoughts on where we are as far as a life cycle of this product?
[00:09:12] Speaker A: Oh, that's a fantastic question.
I think we are in a period of reckoning, to be honest. I think we have.
Workday has built itself up in a certain direction over the years where now it's leaning more towards wanting to become a platform tool. So that's why you see the purchases of the company that it has purchased, because it is leaning into wanting to be a platform, at least in my opinion. I believe they've said that too, but at least that's what I'm seeing.
And I think we're at that reckoning because it's this moment where it's taking it from point A to point B. And they have opened up the ecosystem. It used to be a very closed ecosystem.
They've opened it up, they've introduced all new partners, they've introduced new companies through the various technologies.
And I think they have the opportunity to just keep elevating the workday platform to a really incredible place. But they have to.
They have to recognize where their customers are too. Not every customer can buy every tool at every single moment that it comes out. Like you still have your small or your medium enterprise customers who don't have millions upon millions of dollars to invest in a tool, who need workday at its core to be the best that it can be. And I, you know, I, I hate to see them not invest there in favor of investing in acquisitions and acquiring technology in that way. So it's a little bit of a
[00:10:48] Speaker C: love that you've used of who they want to be because.
And it's funny that you mentioned that with workday customers, the, the last compensation survey that we did, we always did kind of a good, bad and ugly, you know, and one of the things everyone said that they didn't like about where, where Dave was headed was, you know, finish up the core, go back to your core modules and, and make them better pay attention to our brainstorms. You know, when they completely got rid of those. Right, yes. You know, so people were all about that.
So that's really interesting. And I mean, you know, we kind of joke a little bit that, you know, everybody's a partner now. Right.
But I mean, that's what it feels like, relying really heavily on partners to build the connectors, build to supplement what they are not doing, it seems like.
And I think they admit that, you know, so that's, that's good because there really are some amazing solutions, creative things that are out there.
But I like the word reckoning. That's good.
[00:11:54] Speaker A: There really are. Yeah. And I think that, you know, I think AI, everyone's favorite buzzword, caught a lot of people by surprise. It, you know, AI has always been there. Like, I worked at IBM when they were introducing the Watson tool, and, you know, they did some really cool things in their HR space.
And that was in 20, probably 2016. So that was 10 years ago now.
So they were on the forefront of it. But I don't. No one else was there. And AI has just exploded. And I think it's caught a lot of people by surprise, including some companies where they're, you know, they are abandoning maybe their core products to hire the companies that are doing the technology because they just, they can't catch up to it, you know, But I want very much like you, I want the core product to be great, like, and to get us over the finish line of the things that we need to do just to function as a, like an HR or a people organization or a finance organization, if we're talking about workday finance, you know, and that's, that's what they have to figure out a little bit.
[00:13:05] Speaker C: Well, since you mentioned it, you know, because it is by law, we have to talk about AI at some point.
We won't talk about a workday specifically, since we all needed a little bit of a break from rising, but AI in general, so like you said, it's just taken us all by storm.
How are you handling it as a leader internally with the company or your team or how are you approaching it?
[00:13:37] Speaker A: Yeah, and that's definitely a good way to approach it because everybody does want to use it. I'm sure you're using it in your day to day life. I use it and I love AI.
[00:13:46] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: I think it's the best thing ever.
And you know what I, what I encourage my team to do is embrace the technology that we have for AI. You know, we have certain tools that we're using internally and we actually had a hackathon for our team to just build whatever you can with AI. We didn't care what it was. Try to solve a problem that you have.
You know, we had an AI playground. And you know, my team built this really cool stuff. Like one person built an app for, for travel, like for travel itineraries, which is really cool. Another built like a. Some sort of database. I'm not exactly remembering what it was, but they built a database. But like for me, with AI, I encourage people to play around with it so you can understand it and not be afraid with it.
Figure out how to do prompt engineering. There is this phenomenal book out there. Can I quote an author?
[00:14:42] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:14:43] Speaker A: Okay. There is this phenomenal book out there that is. I'm looking for it. It might be on my desk. It is.
[00:14:50] Speaker C: I think I know which one you're talking about.
I saw you write about it.
[00:14:54] Speaker A: Yes, it's this one. Yes, it's. It's the AI Driven Leader by Jeff Woods. Probably one of the best books I read in 2025 because it teaches you how to think about using AI, to leverage it in a way that allows you to work more, work a little bit smarter. Right. Use the technology to help you solve problems, but don't let it solve the problem for you. Like prompt it so that you know what you want it to do. Like that. If everyone could read that book, I think they would truly embrace AI and understand that it can.
What it can and cannot do for you because it cannot do everything.
Um, and the other thing I think about AI is we say AI, but I think a lot of people, when they say AI, they actually mean automation. Like they want to automate processes, they want to make things easier to do, and they want really good employer user experiences. And AI is sort of just the bucket of that. But you can, there's other things you can use with automation. Like you can use rpas to build a bot to do certain things for you.
And that is where I think people are trying to figure out what AI can do for them.
You Know, and, and, but you have to, you have to learn to embrace it. So a yes, can I tell a funny story? I don't know if it's yes. We're all, I'm just going to tell a story. That's okay. I'm just gonna.
It's AI related. So in my outside of work life, one of the things I love to do is jigsaw puzzles. Okay. And, and I love it because it introduced you to all these amazing artists. Right. Like these artists that you wouldn't maybe necessarily see unless you go to a museum or something. And I love it for that.
But there's also a lot of puzzles that are made with AI images and there's a little bit of a controversy.
Controversy might not be the right word, but there's definitely strong opinions about how puzzle imagery should only be artists who are human.
And you know, and then there are, there is puzzle and not using AI images and then how puzzle companies, you know, distinguish, you know, who to the consumer, who is AI, who is not.
I am somewhere in the middle. I see how cool AI can do really neat things. And, you know, some of the images I've asked it to create, I mean, you know, I've, I've got the best images of my dogs because of it, but I get the, you know, I would be so sad if it all became AI technology because there are just some incredible artists out there that I have found just through.
[00:17:48] Speaker C: Of all things. Yeah.
[00:17:50] Speaker A: Of all the random things.
[00:17:51] Speaker C: You know, I mean, I definitely, I kind of feel that same way. It's.
[00:17:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:57] Speaker C: And I always say in an AI generated world, AI generated world. It's, you know, the, that your brand, your story, your authenticity is what is so key. And everything doesn't need to be AI generated image.
So many people. I mean, I do think that workday ecosystem is ahead of others as far as just people with the technology skills and things like that. But a lot of times people are using AI just as asking questions like Google, they're using it for that and they're believing what is returning. So there's not even being prompted, you know. Right. And not knowing that it's a hallucination or, you know, any of these things.
So, yes, I, I don't know. It's going to be a pendulum. Like everybody adopts it and then there's going to be all this junk that happens and then it'll come back and then it'll, you know, you know, kind of do that back and forth.
[00:18:48] Speaker A: It will.
[00:18:49] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:18:51] Speaker A: It's going to, I Because I think we've seen that pattern with all technology, right? Like the new cool thing comes out, everyone wants it, and then it swings back, you know, and AI is in its moment right now. And it is, you know, it has the ability to do really incredible things for organizations, for you and your personal life. But you have to know how to leverage it and not over leverage it. Like, the hallucinations are huge. You have to be able to recognize those. But something new is going to come along. Eventually something is going to come along that disrupts AI and hopefully we all know what it is to buy the stock to make the millions.
[00:19:32] Speaker C: As you were saying that, I mean, I'm thinking, and I love that you guys held the, did the hackathon.
I'm thinking of some apps that people have created even in the ecosystem that I've seen that they shared on LinkedIn.
I know I had someone reach out to me. He had created this whole resume writing, interview thing, whatever, his college daughter, and built it in lovable.
You know, there's someone else that she had shared. She built, she likes to cook, and she ended up building, you know, some kind of recipe thing. Again with lovable. Everybody's loving lovable.
But so it is kind of fun to see outside of, you know, work, all the ways that people are using is.
[00:20:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yes, absolutely.
[00:20:21] Speaker C: All right, well, let's talk one thing workday. Because obviously, I guess we have to talk a little bit about this.
All right, so I know that you successfully led your group moving to the public cloud recently or last year, and shared so much knowledge and tips and things like that with our workday application executive network. So thank you for that.
And I think, I mean, what impressed me so the most probably was that you guys did it on your own without any third party help.
So, you know, what even made you kind of go, all right, let's see if we can do this on our own. You know, kind of. What did that look like?
[00:21:03] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, for me, I think part of it is I just know how incredible my team is and I knew we can handle it.
I know every leader probably brags about their team and if they don't, they should. But I just have a phenomenal group of technologists that work on my team. They are just some of the best engineers that I have ever worked with and I just knew they have the skill and the capability to do it.
And once we looked at what it really entailed, because what it was is updating your system with URLs and making sure you knew you had the correct URLs and the right communication plan and the right timing.
And I just knew my team could do it like that. I never had a doubt in my mind that they wouldn't be able to do it with enough, you know, we had enough time. We knew what would happen.
And we trusted workday. Like, we weren't the first out of the gates. Like, we purposely were not the first out of the gates.
We were. I don't know what number, you know, we were that moved, but we knew companies had gone before us.
We had to wait for workday to One of the SKUs we had couldn't move until a certain point. I want to say it was payroll.
I forget exactly, but we had to wait. So we knew there were people who had gone before us and they had been successful. And I said, why wouldn't we be?
We've been successful at every other thing that we have deployed. Why would this be different?
And that's why we did it. We just built it into our team's capacity of when we wanted to do it.
I trusted the. The people on my team who did it, and I knew they would be really successful, and they were.
[00:22:50] Speaker C: That's awesome.
You know, what is it that would. Oh, I'm sorry. Go, Nikki.
[00:22:55] Speaker B: No, I was just gonna say, I mean, it's so clear how you entrust your people. I mean, you are director of People
[00:23:03] Speaker C: Tech,
[00:23:06] Speaker B: but again, you've been in the ecosystem for a long time, so just curious how you've evolved as a leader over these years to kind of keep your game to where it needs to be, to kind of match what's happening out out there in the ecosystem.
You know, how have you evolved as a creator, as a leader, to bring those people, you know, around you up in their own career?
[00:23:30] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, I've had to. There's definitely. There was definitely a moment probably 10 years ago where I realized I can either be a leader who tries to do it all and, like, hands in the system and do all the configuration, or be a leader who has the team of people who can do it and give them the Runway to be able to do it.
I think for me, I have always had people who have been my leader who have just trusted me to do the thing, whatever that thing was. It was mostly, you go do this.
I went, delivered it and moved on. And I have just built that.
That someone believing in me that way just resonates. So I wanted to make sure that my team knows that I just. I trust them like I do. I Want them. And I would hope that they would say that they know that even if they make a mistake, it's not a big deal, because people are going to make mistakes. And that is where you learn, right? You learn from, you know, the thing that you break. Like, gosh, there was one time early in my career where I accidentally.
I'm not going to say the company, but I accidentally updated the location. I thought I was updating the location of just one business site. I ended up updating everybody's location. It was like, my first. It was my first year in workday consulting.
And all of a sudden everyone had this, like, address in California. And I was like, what did I do? Like, what? Let me figure out what I did. And we, you know, and it was like a payroll day. It was like this whole thing.
But I made the mistake. I talked to my manager. It wasn't a big deal. Like, we corrected it. I never did it again. That's like, that's how you learn, you know, failing forward. Failing forward, yeah, going forward, don't update the location.
But that is, like, I just have always put a big belief in my team. I, you know, I just. Just trust them. I just inherently trust people.
And I have, to date, never have anyone break that trust. I've been very lucky with the teens that I've had, and they've always been very committed to the task at hand.
And, you know, I like to think it's because I leave very empathetically. I really, you know, I really want people to know I care about them as a person.
Sometimes you have to make hard business decisions, and those are the moments that are really awful. Right? But for the vast majority of the time, it is, you know, understanding at the core that they are humans with lives and things that happen that impact them.
And I want them to know that I trust them. You know, we're all adults here. Like, at the end of the day, we're all adults. Like, just do your job, do your thing. And, you know, that's what I ask of you. And I want them to know, like, they just have that. That it's a buzzword, but, like, that psychological safety, like, I want them to know that they. That I will carry the burden for them, that they don't have to worry about it, you know, and if you fail, just let me know and we can figure it out. It's not a big deal.
[00:26:45] Speaker C: You know, I mean, that's so powerful.
[00:26:46] Speaker B: And I was gonna ask you that.
[00:26:48] Speaker C: You would think that that would just be kind of a normal Approach that people. Most people would take. But. But it's not. I mean.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:57] Speaker C: You know, so that says a lot about you and everything.
Yeah.
[00:27:02] Speaker B: Because I know you do post about leading with empathy and being transparent, and obviously that makes your team more comfortable to explore new things and try new things.
So, you know. Yeah, it's just a positive experience all around. I think that is so important to have a leader or a manager that trusts you and will catch you if you, you know, update everybody's location to one state.
I think it allows you to have the confidence to grow in your career, too.
[00:27:35] Speaker A: So it does, you know, or we
[00:27:37] Speaker C: all move to California, so there.
[00:27:39] Speaker A: It does.
[00:27:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:41] Speaker A: Yeah, Exactly.
Oh, my gosh. That was such, like, a panic moment for, like, 30 minutes. I was like, wow. But. But no, I mean, you know, I would hope that's. I hope my team knows, and I think they do, but how much I care for them, not only as individuals but about their careers and about developing them and, you know, building this space so that they can learn new things. And it's. Throughout my career, I've just been.
You know, I've just had the pleasure of leading these really great teams, whether they're large teams or small teams. But, you know, each one of them just has spoken to me in a different way, and it's helped me grow as a leader where I don't. I know I don't have to do all the things because I have the team who can do it, and that allows me to do other things.
[00:28:24] Speaker C: You realize you just guarantee that the next time you post a job that you're going to get 10 million applications. Because people.
[00:28:32] Speaker A: I hope so, because it's a great.
[00:28:34] Speaker C: People are going to be like, oh,
[00:28:35] Speaker B: my God, you may already be getting 400 applications.
Like, you may already be getting 400, but now it's going to probably bump up to 4,000 because everybody wants Melissa as their leader, so.
[00:28:47] Speaker A: Oh, I. That would be amazing.
[00:28:48] Speaker C: That would be awesome.
[00:28:50] Speaker A: So.
[00:28:51] Speaker C: I don't know. I was just. Go ahead, Nikki. I know you had another one in here you wanted to ask.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: Oh, no, no. I was just. Well, there's so many different paths we can. We can go down here.
But I was going to say kind of going back to that longevity.
You know, folks that have been in this for a while, again, I hate to use the word, maybe a little bored.
You know, how can they upskill? I mean, I know you mentioned get out of. Maybe move out of work day, you know, but let's just say they can, you know, work Day is, is where they need to be and where they need to play for, for a while.
You know, what advice, other than maybe moving out of a different technology and even if it's outside of, you know, to kind of keep that motivation going and keep that upskilling going, what piece of advice would you have?
[00:29:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I would, you know, I would say I can understand why people think they're bored within workday. I've had those moments too. And that's because you are probably doing the same thing year over year. Maybe you're the recruiting person or the advanced comp person and that's all you do. But workday has how many different modules?
Like, go go learn a new module. Go figure out how payroll works. Go go figure out how to build an, I don't know, an extend app. Go, you know, go embrace everything that workday can offer you so that you don't feel bored or stuck.
And I, you know, I think it's. I think it's important to have a very healthy.
I sort of consider it work life integration, but like a work life balance. Like, there are things that I do outside of work that fill my cup up too. You know, I mentioned, like, I love jigsaw puzzles, I love to read.
So I don't know if I love to buy books more than I love reading, but like, both of those are sort of some hobbies that I have.
But, you know, be of service to others. Like, find something that you value that's important to you and go find an organization where you can be of service.
And that, like, that just fills you up in a different way where maybe you, you are stuck in your career, but find, like, find a path somewhere else that fulfills you if you need to.
Because sometimes, you know, I know there are people out there who just do a job because it's a job, because they have to pay the bills. Not everyone is lucky to be in a career that they love. Sometimes you just have to pay the bills and, and that's okay, you know, that. I mean, the vast, I think probably like maybe a vast majority of people are like that. And that's great. Like, that's what you have to do. Find other ways to fill yourself up. Fill your soul with something you love. And I think that becomes less.
[00:31:40] Speaker C: No, I like that. How would someone do that, though? You know, so many times, you know, you're out somewhere and it's like, what do you do? Well, I'm a workday, you know, whatever. We're a professional.
I spent, you know, I own A recruiting company. And we define ourselves just with the job that we have as opposed to.
[00:32:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:02] Speaker C: And not. That's maybe even a bad example. But, you know, how do you. How do we get when our job does take so much of our life?
How. You know, and you've done a really good job. You do so many other things and you share that. Which. We'll talk about that in a little bit. I mean, you're starting to write about it now too, you know, so what is it that someone could do to kind of add that or. And it not be this big monumental lift for them to do, if that makes sense.
[00:32:34] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it does. And you know, I think there's one thing.
I don't have children to occupy my time outside of work. Now I have dogs. And you know, they're. They're time consuming, but not, not like five. Yeah, my little. My babies. But, you know, I, So I, I may have maybe a little bit more time than say, a working mom or a working dad, you know, but, you know, find that fulfillment however you can. You know, whether it is going to church or going to a bookstore or going having coffee with a friend, you have to find those pockets. Like, you cannot just be work, work, work, work, work. I was a work, work, work person. I, you know, I had so many people tell me, melissa, you're just working too much. You're working too long. But I loved what I did, so I didn't ever feel like work.
And then the, Our. Our good friend, the pandemic hit. Can we talk about the pandemic? I don't know. I know like sometimes you can and you can't out.
And you know, I was in the middle of a huge divestiture and. But I just like, I needed a little bit more. And one day I randomly was on Reddit and someone posted a picture in like, the dog group that said, I just transported this dog from like California to Oregon. And I said, what is transporting? And that was the moment that kicked off this, this transporting that I do on the weekends.
That has been the most fulfilling thing in my life. I love it. I love bringing a dog from point A to point B and knowing it is going. I'm going to get emotional knowing it is going to a new. Just a new beginning that came from a really bad situation and it's going to a good situation and that just is so.
It just like, it just is so fulfilling. So you have to find the thing that fulfills you.
Whatever it is, whatever it is you love to do, just figure out how to find it there. Look on Reddit for things. Ask ChatGPT.
You know, like, now we have AI. AI will tell you, but you just have to find the thing that will fulfill you. Life is too short and too close not to wow. And you have to make it.
[00:34:54] Speaker C: That's the thing is making it a priority. I mean, so many times, like, I know I should. I know I should.
[00:34:59] Speaker A: You have to make it a priority.
[00:35:01] Speaker C: You know, I know I've shared that even with some of the things that we're implementing. Have implemented and that we're implementing with. Even with Corner Office. It was just stopping, going. I've done this work so long.
What do I really enjoy doing? And how can I take what I do for work and what I enjoy doing and build from that?
You know, but if I had not just stopped and, you know, gone through that. I think
[00:35:30] Speaker A: you have to. You have to have. I know I used reckoning with workday, but you have to have that reckoning with yourself too. Like, what is it? You know, okay, maybe your job is just a job, but like, what is it you like to do? And figure out how to make that work for you, whether it's through a paid opportunity or just volunteering or just find it. Like, you take the moment, step back, stop doom scrolling, step back and think, what.
What is it that I love to do? And it's there. You just. You just have to unleash it.
[00:36:03] Speaker C: Reckoning is going to be in the title of this podcast somewhere.
[00:36:06] Speaker B: I know.
[00:36:07] Speaker C: Oh, no.
[00:36:08] Speaker B: I have a feeling that, that may come up in a. In a question a little bit later.
[00:36:13] Speaker A: So.
[00:36:13] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and I was just going to chime in, Melissa, something that you've been really getting into, that substack is an analog heart. That is your. That is what you've been putting out. So. And you just. I mean, you're a great writer. I mean, that comes. Is that. Oh. However is that something that you chose to do to kind of break away a little bit from career or work mode and kind of put yourself in a different place, you know, where. How did that come about?
[00:36:42] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, so that's good.
[00:36:44] Speaker C: They're part of it.
[00:36:45] Speaker A: Hold on. Timeout, Norman. See it.
[00:36:47] Speaker B: Melissa really has five dogs. That's not.
[00:36:50] Speaker A: They're here.
There is a squirrel or something in the yard that they're very focused on at the moment.
So the analog cart. Yes. So that is a recent creation of mine. I love, I do. I am someone who needs a creative outlet. I have a closet full of paintings that I have Created because I love to. I love to paint. I, you know, I mentioned I read and do jigsaw puzzles. I journal a lot. I have a stack of journals where I've just written down probably everything that I thought about over the course of my life. And on the LinkedIn posts, because I do a lot of LinkedIn posts. I've had a number of people who just text me who said, I really love what you have to say. Can you do this more?
And I've been thinking about it, and I want to do it more, but it's not always about work.
Sometimes it is about the dogs. Sometimes it is about a book I read or a, you know, music that I've listened to. I'm still trying to figure out Substack. It's a very interesting platform.
You know, you're supposed to really engage with it daily for. For, I guess, certain reasons. But I. I just can't. I just don't have that much time. But I just. I just have things to say and people seem to want to connect with it, so I'm just giving it a shot to see where it goes. I may make it private next week, you know, but. But even this weekend, I got a text from someone I worked with a number of years ago, and he's like, I loved your post about. I think it was probably about the dogs, because that's the center of my world. But, you know, he's like, I really loved what you. You wrote about the dogs. You know, thank you for sharing that. I hope you write more.
And so to just, you know, even that it touches one person. I'm gonna just keep trying to do it when it. When I can and when it makes sense.
[00:38:43] Speaker B: Yeah, we talk about how valuable stories are, and it also makes you authentic. Right. And real. Which again, in a world of AI, I mean, having having, you know, a real connection or something that just, you know, relatable. Right. And also makes you a powerful leader as well. Yeah. But yeah, that just flows naturally. Your posts, your comments, and we tell folks to do that as well. And that is a great outlet, as you're saying, figure something out, something creative. You don't have to post about workday all the time or career all the time.
But yeah, I've been reading it. I've been following you.
[00:39:22] Speaker C: I subscribe.
[00:39:23] Speaker A: Oh, thank you, storyteller.
Oh, well, I appreciate it.
[00:39:27] Speaker C: And we'll definitely share the link in this too.
[00:39:31] Speaker A: Yeah, please, please do. I have been.
I have no, no desire to be a content creator. I think that is just a level of stress I do not want in my life.
But I have been thinking about, like, what content do I want to put out there? And like how to schedule it slightly. Like, you know, maybe one day it is about a book I read, like maybe some leadership book and the next day it's about, I don't know, some observation I had of a hawk in the sky. I don't know. But you know, so I'm trying to think about how to commit myself to leaning into this habit, like in leaning into this hobby. Because I do love it. I really just love late at night, sort of when the day is done, the dogs are asleep. I love just to sit on my laptop and just write things down.
[00:40:15] Speaker C: Well, we're multi dimensional people. Right. And just as we said earlier, it's not all about work.
[00:40:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:20] Speaker C: And you get your energy with all this creative.
[00:40:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:25] Speaker C: Stuff that you do. I'm expecting to see pictures of art at some point, you know, in this. But yeah, yeah, I mean that's, you know, and that fuels you, which then impacts your job, you know, and the work that you do, it impacts your team.
[00:40:41] Speaker A: It does.
[00:40:41] Speaker C: You know, it's just this ripple effect, you know, through everything.
So
[00:40:47] Speaker A: it is. Yeah. And it's, you know, a lot of times it helps me think through work things too. You know, like I could be sitting there just doing some random painting and they're not good paintings. Like I would never like, you know, I, I mean I like my mom liked them, but.
But it helps me like it just takes me out of the day to day and it gives my mind a chance to relax.
And that's when I have found in those moments, that's when I. I think of the thing I need to do. I used to when I was doing workday consultant, I would wake up in the middle of the night because I was.
And that's when solutions would come to me. It was the weirdest thing, but it's because I was so relaxed and so out of the moment and things like painting or doing jigsaw puzzles, it just allows me to disconnect from things and focus on just sort of doing this activity.
[00:41:41] Speaker C: That's so funny that you mentioned that with the consulting thing. I literally have a playlist I call 30,000ft. Yeah, 30,000ft. For when I was a road warrior.
[00:41:50] Speaker A: O.
[00:41:51] Speaker C: That's where I. When I would be up there and listening to music and that's when I would come up with ideas and. But it was relaxed.
It probably didn't happen on the way it was when I was Coming home on a Thursday evening. But, you know, but it was. And so that stayed with me all these years and created, like I said, a playlist that's 30,000 foot, 30,000ft playlist.
[00:42:16] Speaker A: I love that.
[00:42:18] Speaker C: What's yours, Nikki? You have something like that?
[00:42:21] Speaker B: Well, I was just gonna say that you have. I think sometimes you do have to disconnect to reconnect, you know, and. And whatever that gap is or whatever that thing is, you know, I don't know. I'm a music person and I.
Before, you know, I was a communications major. I wanted to be the dj, which is. Oh, I love it takes us to a segue to something in just a few minutes.
But so for me, it's, you know, creating my Spotify playlists and sharing them with friends and then you start going down the rabbit hole of you like this artist, we'll check out this artist. And then next thing you know, it's four hours that you discover new music and you're sharing it with people.
And again, you just have different playlists for different mindsets and it's fun. So for me, definitely, it's. It's the. I am not a painter.
Takes. Takes me about 15 minutes to read four pages because, you know, focus on something else.
So not an avid reader, but yeah, for me, it's. It's. I think I'm in my. My zone when.
[00:43:25] Speaker A: I love it.
[00:43:26] Speaker B: DJ as used to be called DJ Slick.
[00:43:28] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh.
[00:43:31] Speaker A: DJ Slick Nick.
[00:43:32] Speaker B: Slick Nick. Yes. And to this day, my brothers and nephews, Aunt Slick. So it caught on.
[00:43:39] Speaker C: So you're going to notice you're going to get a notification that Nikki's changed her LinkedIn profile and it'll have in quotes, Slick Nick. You should.
[00:43:48] Speaker A: That's so awesome.
That's so awesome. I never would have thought that. Yes, yes. But that's it. Like, that's what's so important is, like the disconnect, right? We are in such a connected world. Like, you cannot go anywhere without some sort of noise interrupting you at any given time. In those moments.
My mother always, like, jokes when she comes to my house. She's like, why is your house so quiet? Because I never have a TV on. I never have the radio on. It's like in those quiet moments, that's where things are allowed to just be released, whether it's a work issue or a life issue or just whatever, like that creativity. But there's so much noise out there, like between the pings on the phone and slack and zoom and, you know, just finding that Creative space. So next time I need a slick
[00:44:41] Speaker B: Nick Spotify, just ping me. Just tell me what kind of mood you're going for or where you're at and I can come up with some.
[00:44:49] Speaker C: Nikki may have to like.
[00:44:51] Speaker A: I love it. I also want this.
[00:44:53] Speaker C: What is it? Obama does. Doesn't Obama put out like a playlist that he has?
So there you go, Nikki.
[00:44:59] Speaker A: He does. At the end of the year.
[00:45:01] Speaker B: Yes, yes, he did not call me, but former president Barack Obama needs a playlist. Exactly. Help him out.
[00:45:10] Speaker C: I love it.
[00:45:11] Speaker A: You should do it.
[00:45:14] Speaker C: Right, right. Me too. She was great. Rising.
[00:45:18] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness.
[00:45:19] Speaker C: All right. So is it that time?
[00:45:22] Speaker A: Yes, she was.
[00:45:22] Speaker C: Yeah, it is. Okay. All right.
We call this our barrel rush round. So this is our. Our fast questions. You're in the barrel. You know, the whole workday wave. You're in the barrel. You're riding it out.
So it's kind of first thing in your mind when we ask a question. So I think I'm. I'm starting it off. Okay.
So you obviously, you've been in the ecosystem for a very long time. What is one thing you genuinely love about the ecosystem? Yes. The people that. No brainer on that one. I would agree 100%.
Okay. A personal, like a habit or mindset since we kind of been talking about this, that you.
You protect no matter how busy or how noisy things get.
[00:46:10] Speaker B: What.
[00:46:10] Speaker C: What is that or those things?
[00:46:12] Speaker A: I protect the 7 to 9pm schedule where I am just sitting there drinking a cup of tea and hanging out couch with my dogs and just absorbing their love. PM for the day.
[00:46:27] Speaker C: Am. Pm. Okay. I'm just making sure.
[00:46:29] Speaker A: Pm, pm, pm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We are up and at it.
[00:46:34] Speaker C: Okay. I was like, wait, wait, wait.
All right. You are a book person and I know that you mentioned the one earlier.
[00:46:41] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:46:41] Speaker C: Best book you read. 2025 and why?
[00:46:44] Speaker A: 2025 and why.
Oh, gosh. A Strong Ground by B' Nai Brown. That book.
[00:46:51] Speaker B: I remember your post.
[00:46:52] Speaker A: Phenomenal.
[00:46:53] Speaker B: You posted the heck out of that.
[00:46:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I loved everything that book had to say and it just. It just reinforced so many things that I have been thinking. I went out and bought. It was the first book of hers I've actually read, surprisingly. And I went and bought all of her other books because I just loved it so much. Yeah, yeah. So posts coming on those soon.
[00:47:15] Speaker C: Oh, I can't wait to see that.
[00:47:16] Speaker A: I'm working my way through.
[00:47:17] Speaker C: I love it now. I'm like, literally, as you were saying, that I'm picturing everybody going, where are you where is my Brene Brown book from Riley?
Yeah, they're pulling it out of the backpack.
[00:47:31] Speaker B: Some people don't even realize it's in the backpack, that they got it right. They haven't even opened up the backpack because that's funny.
[00:47:37] Speaker A: All right, I will say the best fiction book I read all year was.
It's a cozy little magic book called the Spell Shop. And it's. It's just enough romance. It's just enough, like, talking plants. It was just a very relaxing book. So it's that. But that's the best fiction book.
[00:47:57] Speaker C: Making notes. Nice.
[00:47:58] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:47:59] Speaker A: Yes. Yep.
[00:48:00] Speaker B: All right, so I'm up with the last two questions here. And I'm going to adjust something now that we know that you are an artiste. So if you can only.
Only keep one, would it be a puzzle, a book, or a paintbrush?
[00:48:15] Speaker A: Oh, a book. Hands down. Okay. Hands down.
[00:48:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:48:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:20] Speaker B: Okay. No right or wrong answer. Okay. All right.
[00:48:23] Speaker A: No, definitely, Definitely.
[00:48:25] Speaker B: So now that you know dj, you know Slick Nick. So here's my. My question. So what is your go to song when you need a little pump up a little extra mo or just having a rough day? What is that song that you always go to?
[00:48:40] Speaker A: So there's like five
[00:48:43] Speaker C: instead of. What's the playlist?
[00:48:46] Speaker A: I'm going to give you three. Can I give you three? Yeah.
Okay, so the first is Treasure to Find by the Indigo Girls.
[00:48:53] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:48:55] Speaker A: Yep. That is always blaring out my radio whenever I've had a rough day.
I also love a Bartender by Dave Matthews Band. I am a teenager of the 1990s, and I just love everything 1990s, 1990s.
That's always on the playlist. And then the third will be.
It's just a beautiful. It's a beautiful. Just indie, sort of broken heart love song.
And I tend. I'm a very happy person, but I tend to leave listen to.
[00:49:26] Speaker C: I love it. Those are all good.
[00:49:28] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ray is pretty deep. He is so.
I've seen him twice in concert, but my goodness.
[00:49:37] Speaker A: Oh, isn't he so good?
[00:49:38] Speaker C: He's not gonna talk.
[00:49:39] Speaker A: So, so good.
[00:49:40] Speaker B: See, now we could spend a whole nother. Whole nother hour music, but we're not gonna do that.
[00:49:45] Speaker A: Let's do it.
[00:49:46] Speaker B: But those are great ones, Melissa.
[00:49:48] Speaker C: Really, really good.
[00:49:48] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:49:49] Speaker C: Well, you made it through. You made it through the barrel rush round. So.
Yeah.
[00:49:55] Speaker B: Congratulations. Awesome.
[00:49:56] Speaker A: Yeah, those weren't hard at all.
[00:50:00] Speaker C: Well, thank you so much. I mean, I have to personally say we've been connected for such a long time and being able to connect with you with obviously the application executive network and this and just getting to know you more, this is what this is all about.
It's just so much fun and I've just really, really enjoyed it.
And I do. I love the posts that you share and the things that you share, and you can feel the enthusiasm with that. So thank you for doing that. Keep on doing it. And whether it's engagement or not, you know, you're still impacting people. And I think that's one thing you just, like you said that person.
[00:50:40] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:50:41] Speaker C: Thanked you for the, for sharing the thing. And they may not have engaged, but that's not what it's about.
So. But I thoroughly enjoyed this and yes, I do think that the people in the ecosystem, that is one of the things that just makes us so different.
So thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and thanks, Melissa. And it's just been so much fun.
[00:51:05] Speaker A: My pleasure.
[00:51:07] Speaker C: What'd you say, Nikki?
[00:51:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you for having me. That was awesome. Go ahead, Nikki. What did you say?
[00:51:13] Speaker B: Oh, I'm sorry.
[00:51:15] Speaker A: Oh, I think I cut you off.
[00:51:17] Speaker B: Oh, no, no, I was just saying thanks for, thanks for being on the podcast and bringing, you know, the positive energy and it obviously, you know, exudes and people, you know, are comfortable with that. So you as a leader, you as a volunteer, the dogs, you know, it just, I think it all encompasses and it makes you, you know, where you are today and both in and out of your career a positive, really positive role model. So thank you for, for being here.
[00:51:44] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:51:46] Speaker B: If you got real value out of this episode, like it, follow the show and share it with one workday leader who needs it. And for more career conversations and insights like this, make sure you subscribe to the Signal on WD Beacon. Thanks again for listening to another episode of Wavemakers.
