Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I'll always double down on myself, you know, confidence in my own. I have to stay focused on that, know that I always find a way to, you know, figure something out, whether that's business, find another client, whether that's a new idea, whether that's, you know, delivering a project, you know, staying focused on my own capabilities. It's so easy to question and spiral, but that always kind of reminds myself that I'll get through it.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: And bet on yourself.
[00:00:26] Speaker C: Love it.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:00:28] Speaker C: What if the thing you've been chasing your whole career, whether it be money or promotions, job security, suddenly isn't enough anymore?
Rebecca Brown knows that moment. She went from 60 hour corporate weeks, student debt hanging over and the constant grind to walking away and building something entirely on her end. And here's the thing, she, she didn't just survive. She found freedom, energy, and a whole new sense of purpose.
In this episode of Wavemakers, Rebecca shares what it really feels like to leap into independence. How fear can hold us back longer than failure ever will, and why the future of your workday career might just be betting on yourself.
So we're so excited today to have Rebecca Brown with us.
Rebecca's been in the workday ecosystem at two different workday companies and also been consulting at some other ones. And the reason that we're talking with Rebecca today, I like to call this the scroll stopping post.
I was out on LinkedIn one day and I just saw this post that she had done where you were celebrating your first year of being independent. And it wasn't just talking about this is what I've been able to do and things like that. It was the energy that came from it that I had to read the whole thing. It was energy. It was like a freedom. It was like you had discovered things and it was just so enlightening. So I guess kind of starting off, what were you thinking as you were writing that in your hidden post and kind of sharing that out there in the LinkedIn world?
[00:02:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, thank you. First off, I'm super excited to be here too, but I have a love hate relationship with social media because I feel like you kind of have to be out there to, you know, show people that, you know, you're not a complete idiot. But at the same time, I generally have a perspective that no one would want to hear anything I have to say. So I struggle with the even idea of posting.
It's really interesting, right, because I, I, so I left my corporate job in May of what year is it? 2020. So May of 2024. So I've now for 16, 17 months, something like that. And it was a really big change. I mean I come from, you know, a background of you work the 80 hour weeks. I've, I've had jobs where I was sleeping on the floor. I've had jobs where I drove home at 5am to take a shower and then turn around and go back to work.
And you know, to go from that to just the unknown was really intense. I mean it was a really big change. I think something important and I even think I put this on the post but for my story is, you know, I, I grew up without a lot and I, you know, graduated college. I had probably 125, $150,000 worth of loans. I don't even know because I had a spreadsheet and I didn't save the before. So it just worked down. And a lot of my decisions really for the first, you know, 10, 15 years of my corporate career were focused on money.
And I think that's the reality for a lot of people is it was chasing promotions, chasing opportunities, just mainly not because I was trying to take over the world, but because I was just trying to get that burden off my back. I don't regret a second. I loved my education. I felt like I took away so much from it. I wouldn't change, maybe change a few things, but I wouldn't change a lot. But you know, that really drove a lot of my decision making and a lot of my motivation. I think when I paid off all the loans then it all of a sudden became, well wait a minute, you know, what's my motivation now and what do I really want to do and what am I really trying to take out of my day to day, you spend, you know, 50, 60, 70, 80 hours a week at work. You know, what does that mean to me? My perspective also changed drastically when I had kids. Right. Like you get married, you have kids, your life changes and you start thinking a lot too around what is the example I'm setting, like how present am I, am I chasing the things that I'm passion.
And so it really kind of hit this point where I really felt like I, I needed to just take a step back and reevaluate. To me, that post was celebrating that I made it through because there was a lot of unknowns. I was terrified to even tell people that I was doing consulting because it felt like every time I've left a job, which isn't a lot, you know, I've always stayed at jobs for six, seven years, generally speaking, it's always felt like a failure, right, of like, I couldn't make this work, when really it wasn't that at all. It was either, you know, relocating. It was, you know, for personal reasons. It was like there was always some bigger reason why I was leaving that had nothing to do with the company.
And. But it still always was a challenge. And so this was another one of those pivots that just felt like there was something that I wasn't able to make work. Even though I was chasing something, it wasn't that I was leaving something. I was chasing an opportunity to kind of play with what I do day in and day out and what I'm good at, my skills a little bit differently than what I was doing in my day job. I didn't tell people it was a very small group, like, limited to my close personal colleagues or personal friends. I got really fortunate that I had had people reaching out a lot over the years, like past co workers. Hey, if you've ever, you know, if you ever think about this, like, call me first. And hey, hey, if you ever. And so I've. I've been super, super, super lucky. All of my clients that I've had so far have been either people I worked with in the past or, you know, people that I'm personally, you know, close with that have, you know, introduced me or brought me in to places.
And so that was also me owning, hey, publicly. This is what I'm doing now in case that generated, you know, additional conversation or opportunity that might be interesting.
But it was, I think, a really big. It was like, I need to own this. You know, I need to be more public about what I'm doing. And. And it generated a lot of really interesting.
A lot of interesting discussion. People that, you know, sort of assumed they knew what was going on then were like, wait a minute, you've been doing this for a year. How did I not know that?
But what was really fascinating is a lot of people reached out, I mean, like, way more than I would have expected, and said, hey, actually, I really want to talk about this. How has this worked for you? What have you done? Like, how do you feel about it? And that was very unexpected.
[00:07:10] Speaker C: Well, and I think you, you know, you and I have talked about this is literally when I saw your post. I was actually working with a director who had been riffed. And as I'm reading your post, I'm thinking about him because that was one of the things I said. Have you ever thought about going independent and starting your own company? And literally he messaged me and said, did you see this post? And I said, I literally read it thinking of you. It was just so funny. And I know that he reached out and obviously you did a follow him. You said that so many people had reached out and what were they asking? I mean, were they, you know, is it a fear of doing this? Do I want to do this at this level? Or, you know, what were they asking?
[00:07:53] Speaker A: It was interesting because it was all over the place. So, I mean, my situation, I chose to leave my job. I wasn't Rift. So I. But I have a lot of empathy for that because there's a lot of that obviously happening in the marketplace has nothing to do with the strength of talent. I think, you know, for a lot of reasons, companies are having to make changes. And, you know, I think in general, people are feeling less secure about their position. Sometimes people are looking for a plan B. Sometimes people are thinking, wow, you know, that could give me a lot of something that I'm missing in my. In my life right now that could be really interesting. So I had a lot of different questions. Some were very tactical of, like, well, how do you set up a company and how do you do taxes and what about your retirement? And you know, like, some of those types of questions that are very, very, you know, kind of brass tax.
Some were more kind of at the macro, like, is it terrifying? How are you? You know, and yes, it is.
Spoiler alert. Like, it's a short answer, but, you know, there were a lot of questions like that. There in. Some were more like, what are the types of things that you're seeing with the clients that you're working with? Because I've had, I think, six or seven clients now that I've worked with pretty closely, one for over a year.
And the rest, like, you know, have stayed in touch, still engage quite a bit on like, you know, more probably macro level questions.
And it really covered a wide range of topics of like, what people wanted to talk about. Some people were even more direct around, like, I've been thinking about doing this. I got laid off six months ago. I took some time off. Now I'm trying to explore my options. What do you do for pricing? And so there was a lot of conversation around, like, well, how do you determine what to price? Like, how do you market yourself? How do you price your services?
What should your prices be in order to, you know, kind of make it work?
The other thing that was really interesting is people are using it too, as a way to kind of try before you buy and so there was one woman I talked to was brilliant, I mean, phenomenal, you know, brilliant technologist. And she said, she's like, I spent, you know, a really long time, 15, 17 years at the same company and, and then was laid off. And she's like, I don't know if I can trust the next employer. And so I feel like this is a way for me to get to know an organization, see if it's a fit before I really want to commit and then join. And I thought that was really smart.
I mean, I think, you know, we all want to be in a position where we have a little bit more control. And I think, especially when you get later in your career or more senior in your position, you almost view that as like a long term relationship. Like it's a really big commitment to take a position especially. That is certainly the case for me. Like I've, you know, I usually target like 5 to 7 years per company if I'm going to be someplace. And so I think that's really smart. I think that's a good way to kind of get a sense of the culture, get a sense of the problems they're trying to solve. Where's the organization going, how does the leadership function? And you know, and then if it doesn't work out, you don't feel like you're quitting, it's just the engagement ended and you move on to something else.
[00:11:12] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. It's always the date before you get married kind of thing.
[00:11:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So I thought that was really smart. That was an interesting takeaway from one of the conversations that came up from that post and I really appreciated her perspective. I thought it was, it was a really good, you know, definitely makes sense for some people.
[00:11:29] Speaker C: Oh no, it's, I mean, it's, you're hearing more and more people doing it. And you know, I mentioned that one person that we were working with, but we have had this conversation over and over and over this this year and, and it's all at this senior level, you know, and that's where companies are cutting that layer out and people, they want to do their own thing. Obviously the market's moving to that. With all the innovations that are out there, it's easier to do that and build your own company. But there is a fear, you know.
[00:11:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:58] Speaker C: With it.
[00:11:59] Speaker B: I was going to ask and congratulations on a year and a half of starting your own company. It is, it is your company, it's your business, you know, so congrats on that and being a sounding board to those that have reached out to you. And I was just going to ask, as far as looking back, kind of, you know, is there something as you were starting this, is there something that maybe you wouldn't. Have you quite made that decision or in a positive way, is there something you would have maybe started earlier or double down on and as you started.
[00:12:31] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great question, I think.
So There's a couple of things with that. I would have set up my LLC earlier. You know, when I left, I had a gig right away. Cause I had a former colleague that, you know, and it was short term. It was really just to help her with a few things. And it was, you know, eight, ten hours a week, something like that. So I thought, oh, this will be fun. I can help her. Because I, you know, really value, you know, our time that we had worked together and do that for a few months. I was interviewing at a couple different places. I was in final rounds, and I really wasn't sure whether I was going to do this or. Or take another position.
And I got to a point, the two places I was in final rounds, one of them, I did get an offer and it took like eight weeks after I'd done multiple days on site. And it just didn't.
That wasn't a great feeling. It just felt like, oh, you know, there's some reason why they're not totally bought in on me. And then the other company, there were some questions that came up in the interview where it was like, well, you know, I can do this job because I don't have kids. And that really rubbed me the wrong way.
Um, and I just got to a point where it's like, I could regret this and I could be the dumbest person on the planet for making this decision, but I don't want either of those. And so for me, I would have not waffled as much if I had to go back. I would have committed a lot earlier of like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this for two or three years. And then if something else comes up, or if I change my mind or if it's not working, or if I fail miserably, I'll reassess. I think that was a big part of why I didn't tell people, because I wasn't totally solid on what I was going to do until I hit a point, probably about 10, 11 months in, where I just stopped looking and I stopped taking the recruiter phone calls. And, you know, I just said, you know, actually, I really like this, and who knows? That might change in the future. But I wish I would have committed a little bit earlier and just gone straight in. So I would have set up my LLC earlier. I do have a self employed 401k. I would have done that earlier.
You know, I set up payroll, I did, you know, all that stuff. Like I wish I would have done all of that earlier. It would have saved me a lot on taxes. That would have, you know, helped me out.
That indecision did have some hard cost to it. And I sh. You know, that's probably the biggest thing I regret. And then I, I should have been more public about it too. Yeah. And talked about, hey, this is what I'm doing right now. If you need help, this is what I'm interested in. I have found that over the past year I have also dabbled in a lot of things that I probably wouldn't have done as my day job previously. And that's been super cool. So it's been a chance for me to kind of get a little bit more creative with my skill sets and with the work I'm doing day to day. I joined an organization that does pro bono consulting and I've been doing non hr, like more like management consulting and market segmentation, analysis, communications development, like things that are totally outside of my day job. And it's just been this really cool, like intellectual exercise that's gotten me to stretch some muscles that I didn't typically use in my day to day previously that it just feels like I've totally, you know, kind of taken a layer of like, it's like, you know, it's like, it's like stripping paint off of furniture or something. It's like I took this layer of like, you know, preconceived notions of my own abilities and I took that off and kind of started from scratch. And so I'm looking at the roles that I do the consulting I do a lot differently. Maybe more like aligned with the business, more aligned with operations. That's changed how I approach IGR Technologies, which I think has been incredibly valuable. I feel like the, the advisory I'm giving now is, is more valuable than it was a year ago. And I think that all, you know, kind of came about from. Or that would have been faster if I would have committed to the idea of like, look, I just want to kind of play with this a little bit and see, you know, see what happens.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:16:48] Speaker C: But you were, I mean, you were getting used to it, you know, so I mean there's, there's that. I Mean and what you just described. You can feel that in that post. That's why I said like there was no freedom. There was, you know, a discovery of you. I like picturing Butterfly. You know, I mean, not to just get over the top there, but it really is.
And I could just keep coming back to that freedom. Like you said when you were like, wait, I don't have to be in this role, I don't have to do this. You know, you went out and tip to toe and then you're like, oh, wait, I can volunteer. And then I'm. You have all this energy and then you can, oh, I'm going to take all this training and learn new things and, and then I'm just going to define this as I go.
You can just feel that it goes from like a tightness to a.
Okay, this, this is better.
I mean, that's what came through with me.
[00:17:39] Speaker A: It's been really cool. I've taken a, you know, continuing education program through Wharton on HR analytics and management. That was great. I've attended conferences that were outside of like my normal, you know, workday rising and that have like very much kind of unblocked some things for me that have given me a vision that I think is really, really interesting and that, you know, I can help drive with clients. I think. Yeah, it's just been great. I mean, I really feel like it was, it can feel like a step back, but the business is doing quite well and you know, my bills are paid, I'm not on a friend's couch or you know, begging my, you know, like tapping into my retirement account or anything like that. Like it all the worst case scenario, things that 100% went through my head many times over didn't happen. And so it, it just sort of kept working out and that was really fascinating. But all this other like really cool stuff intellectually also was happening at the same time as all the panic. And so it, it. And then the cool stuff started happening more than the panic. And then it just got to, you know, a better state of being.
[00:18:55] Speaker C: No, I love it. I love it.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: I know it's, it's just gave you that, I guess that freedom and then that brought the creativity and open doors to a lot of different opportunities. And one of those opportunities I wanted to ask you about is women defining AI.
[00:19:09] Speaker A: You know, what, yeah.
[00:19:10] Speaker B: You know, what attracted you to that and what's their mission? What's their, their purpose?
[00:19:16] Speaker A: Yeah, so a past colleague recommended that to me a couple months ago. I just joined the organization maybe two months ago, roughly.
And it's really about educating women around AI and making AI more accessible. It can be kind of intimidating to figure out how to use AI to its full potential and not just as like a Google replacement. And I think that's really interesting. I really feel strongly that AI also has a lot of bias. Right. There's a really great Kieran Snyder. She was the co founder of tuxdeo, she's the founder of Nerd Processor. If you don't follow her, I would highly recommend it. She's fantastic, has a lot of really great posts, but like she just had one, I think it was a week or two ago about bias in AI. She ran some of her public speaking engagements through AI and got feedback that, you know, she needed to smile more and had like some very specific notes around, you know, her opportunities for improvement. She did the same exercise with over 50 other speakers and found that 92% of the time women were given the feedback to smile more compared to 16% of men. And so I think. And that, and we all have those examples right around like pay disparity in recommendations. You know, the. If you ask AI for recommendations as a, as you self identify as a woman, the recommendation is lower than if you do. And there's all this data around those instances. And I think the best way to combat that is to also have women in the ecosystem designing some of the LLMs and actually building some of the tools. And so I really appreciate the mission of the organization, but fundamentally for me personally, I joined it to learn more and you know, to really get some outside perspective of what I should be using AI for and what are the opportunities. And I think it's going to, you know, very much transform the technology landscape holistically. But you know, in order to really think about that from a strategic and a leadership perspective, you've got to fundamentally understand the tools.
[00:21:21] Speaker C: Nice. Yeah. You know, I'm not anti AI because I have been using it to do things that I have never been able to do before. And one of the great things about it too is it is helping small businesses actually compete on the same levels. Large companies that have full staff and all that kind of stuff. But like you said, you have those issues obviously being in the workday ecosystem. We know the lawsuit that's going on and whether it has anything to do with higher score or not and all that kind of stuff. It's, you know, you're, they're having to deal with that.
Yeah, but companies in and of itself, I saw Gartner actually had put out that 40%, I think, of all agentic AI projects will be canceled by 2027. I mean, we're not even talking in the far future. It's this close.
Why? I mean, what do you think about that? Why are you thinking that's happening? Or are companies rushing too much to adopt this real quickly, Thinking efficiencies or, you know, what's kind of going on?
[00:22:21] Speaker A: Yeah, what I'm seeing, I mean, I'm not surprised by that stat at all. What I'm seeing in the conversations I'm having is AI is the bright and shiny tool. And a lot of leaders are seeing it as a way to save money. Right. There's all these opportunities to leverage AI and ultimately achieve synergy. But I think AI, it's just like any other technology project. It's got to have an ROI associated with it, and you almost need to do like a pilot and make sure that it's actually valuable and creates the business outcome that you're looking for. I think it was Johnson and Johnson. They called it Field of a Thousand Flowers, I think is what it was where they did all the AI projects. And then they found that the top value was driven by five of the projects outside. And so they ended up canceling 95% of what had actually went live with and really stuck with those five that had very defined use cases and value propositions for the organization.
And I think that goes back to change management. Right. Of employees are already stretched really, really thin. I mean, since COVID I think the landscape from an employment perspective has changed.
You're doing more, you're doing more with less. You're focused on the bottom line. Employees are doing the best that they can, but they're overextended and they can only take on so much change.
So you have to be really thoughtful about what projects you move forward with. Is there a value proposition in it? What's the opportunity cost of that change management?
How do they understand even how to leverage the tool? And I think that's every HR leader right now. If they're not, they need to be focused on how to upskill their workforce to take in and consume and leverage AI to actually benefit their functions. But you run the risk of distraction.
And I think as that happens and you get feedback that there's just too much going on. There's this then over correction to, like, simplify.
And in the HR tech space, we've been doing that for years. Right, Tooltopia. Right. Of well, I've got this for hr. I've got this for Recruiting. I've got this for background checks, I've got this for benefits and I've got this for comp. And you have all these things and so that's where workday, you know, is really trying to tie all of those things together and create one platform.
You know, you can argue back and forth of whether they're best of breed in each of each of the spaces but that's what's going to happen with AI too. And I think it's figuring out what is worth the distraction and drives business value and outcome and employee experience or whatever the goals are versus what is overhead and distraction. That's not driving value.
And as you get to those quicker decisions then things are going to get shelved because it's just too much noise in the day to day.
[00:25:15] Speaker C: It is a, it is a lot that's to consume and is emotionally taxing. You know, just trying to. Am I falling behind? Am I, you know, not or you know what's going on with all this stuff?
What are the things that you posted about? I know it sounds like I like stalky there but.
No, but I found like just some interesting things and I actually had a conversation with someone recently about this. So that's why I wanted to get your thoughts. Minimal viable product. It's being pushed everywhere.
I know and my take on it is, you know, to get something adopted really quickly and then you know, enhance it or fix it later, you know, kind of what are your. What are your thoughts and you know, the good, bad and ugly.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I have a love hate relationship with MVP too. I, you know and this goes way back to like the days pre HR technology when I was working in, in like more broader web dev type spaces.
I think there is a time and place for MVP for sure. Especially before your product goes ga that makes total sense of just like continuing to layer and build for HR technologies. You have to be super careful. And this is where it really does. This is where the creative part really drives a lot of value. Right in the, the strategic part of the humanness that you know, can't be replicated by AI is it's looking. You really have to factor in whether or not you're overwhelming your employee base with changes. Right. Because that's the whole thing with mvp. You go live with and then you just add in more functionality, add in process improvements, add in tweaks. But your people have to consume that. Whether it's your employees, your functions, finance it, legal, hr. Right. Your own organization, can they take on that much change? And what do you lose in the process of educating on all of those changes.
I have been in a situation where I've gotten feedback before that we went too fast and we did too much.
And honestly it was fair.
The employees, you know, we were in a, in a space of rapid transformation and rapid growth and we had to push stuff out and we were doing that a lot and I got a lot done. I mean, that was one of my most productive years I've ever had in my career. But our employees didn't know where to go for, you know, try to do XYZ because there was so much that was changing they couldn't track on, you know, and it's easy for us because it's our day to day. Well, of course you're going to go to work day now instead of whatever.
But if you're the employee who's only engaging with HR once a year to get their comp statement or to enroll in benefits or to change their address, like they don't really know, they don't really care. And so that's where I think it tends to fall apart is you can lose people. So I'm a big proponent of plan. This like goes back. My core is project management, right? Like from a million years ago is plan. Well, plan right, plan smart and then execute. And I think there's core pieces around data hierarchies, security integrations. You can't do those wrong and just improve.
Those are hard to change integrations. You might have a very hard cost associated with that too. I mean it can be 20 grand to modify an integration with a vendor. Right? And that's. Those are use cases where MVP does not make sense within your own function where maybe they're much more familiar with the tools with the changes, it's easier to consume. Then MVP makes total sense.
One thing tactically that I've done is like in my Change control forum, I've asked a question of like, is this employee facing, business manager facing. And if it was employee impacting or facing. We only did those at a certain increment, right. We only would do those changes like once every six weeks or once every eight weeks, depending on what else was going on. And then we did a big comm and you know, explained those and did, you know, we focused on the change management piece to make sure that those were successful. But we made sure that we kind of grouped those together so it wasn't, hey, it's Friday. This is changing. Hey, it's Monday. This is changing. You know, we really tried to like be thoughtful about that piece and group and consolidate, you know, so that was that, that was really how we prioritized. Like, is it like we use the ITIL framework? Is it, you know, employee, is it pay impacting? Is it legal? Is it security? If so, then you just gotta get it done and it doesn't matter. But if it's not, and it's like user experience or just process improvement, then, you know, we tried to be smart about how we did those, did those deployments.
And that's what AI can't replicate. Right. And that's where like the human component really becomes important.
[00:30:06] Speaker C: No, it's true. I mean, AI is going to take people's jobs. It's going to take portions of people's jobs, period. The ones that are going to be able to do more are going to, or be around or Excel or anything like that are going to be the ones that have the people experience the bridging. And actually this kind of goes into something that I want to, I won't do this yet, but you know that they're, they're going to be able to do more. What I was talking about is. So I have to look down on this one because Adam Grant, there was a post that says, and he's a organizational psychologist, the hallmark of expertise is no longer how much you know, but how well you synthesize the future belongs to those who connect the dots.
And that's kind of what you're alluding to.
[00:30:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I believe in that. 100. I mean, that's always been how my brain works anyway, weirdly enough, is like I can walk into a room of chaos and it's like I just sort of pick stuff out and kind of make a plan or connect it together.
And I think those types of skills, that's going to be where there's the context that AI is not going to have that enables better outcomes. It's more strategic, more aligned with the business. I mean, I am a huge proponent and I love the fact that this is being talked about more of HR truly being a partner to the business and an accelerator and connecting those dots between what you're doing in HR against what the organization is trying to deliver is so crucial. And it's that type of nuance of understanding your population, understanding the market, that you're your employee population, understanding the macro. Outside of the company, who are your customers? Who are your, you know, I've spent most of my career in healthcare and in biotechs. Who are your patients? What are you trying to accomplish? You know, connecting those dots in the strategy behind the business.
That's where the real value comes into play of what you're doing.
And that's different at every single company. I've never been in an organization where I felt like I could take what I did here and just plop it in here and it would work.
If you do that, you're not doing it right. And I think that's like AI is good at like here's the general and it might get you 75% of the way there. That 25A to me is what's really interesting and fun anyway. But I think that's going to be where people have to play a little bit more.
[00:32:44] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Kind of. Even along the lines you always hear McKinsey and that's the standard of consulting and things like that. And they've already been building their own AI, but they're using it to, you know, create slide decks, they're using it to run theories and things like that, but they're still doing the consulting. So they're getting all kind of those entry level people that they would have, that would do those kinds of things in the past. They're not having to do that, but they still are going to provide those values and connect the dot, do the solutioning and all that kind of stuff.
[00:33:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:16] Speaker B: So I was going to jump in with. Because of AI and all the tools and the shift that we've seen, we've been doing this a while. I was curious. Rebecca, do you have a prediction as far as career stability what that looks like now? Is it becoming extinct because of all these tools or, or is it just being redefined? How do you feel about the, that traditional or typical career stability these days?
[00:33:45] Speaker A: It's a really good question. I think AI is going to change some things, but I also think you have all these startups and smaller organizations that are micro focused within this. You know, the AI market is so huge and actually women defining AI, that's a big part of that ecosystem too is how can you start a business thinking about things that are delivering a product using AI that you've built yourself. There's the whole like vibe coding and all the things that are happening that are enabling people to do things that maybe traditionally weren't as possible.
And so what I see is more it's always going to have the behemoth organizations that need huge teams. Like those aren't going to go away, but I think that small medium business group is going to mid size, mid market layer is going to get a lot bigger hopefully. I mean I think that's pretty cool. And those are the teams lately I've really been enjoying working with because they can't necessarily afford somebody full time that, you know, maybe does some of the things I've done in the past or done some of the things that more specialized people that I'm sure you work with every day. And so what I see is it's.
It's maybe not necessarily stability, because I think there's always going to be some component of stability. But you see it less and less. Organizations are doing a lot more layoffs. They're doing a lot more, you know. Right. Sizing. Where if they feel like they've got a VP and they don't need a vp, they're going to hire in a director, and they're feeling like they can make these changes a lot more because there is talent on the market right now, and there's less. I would say. I don't want to call it loyalty, because that's not really fair, but I think organizations are having to make these decisions a lot faster. And so you are seeing, you know, there's people that never would have thought they would have gotten laid off or getting laid off. And as you see that more and more, and it's totally no fault of their own, it just changes the dynamic. I think consulting is more honest.
And so that, for me, has been really interesting, too, of. There's certainly been times in my career, and especially after Covid. Right. Where I didn't feel like I had job security. There were. There's been a number of times over the past, I'd say five to seven years, where I've thought, oh, I could, you know, I'm next. Like, this is coming. And I've never actually been laid off. So some people might just say I'm paranoid, but, like, it's happening all over.
[00:36:13] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:36:14] Speaker A: Maybe that's that millennial imposter syndrome, like, you know, popping up. But I think it happens constantly. For me, consulting, it's just taken some of the stress out because it's like, well, of course I'm going to kill. Like, this isn't forever. Like, I'm here for, you know, a set period of time to do a set, you know, body of work, and then I'm moving on to the next thing. And so it's actually, for me, kind of remove some of the stress because it's like, well, yeah, you know, I don't have to worry. I know. And so it's enabled me to just stay focused on the work a little bit more. And so I do see people, you know, kind of moving in that direction. I'm not the only one that's felt that way, I'm sure. But I also think there's just this like all ecosystem too that is like, well, I don't need a full time person so I just want somebody for 15 hours a week or I just want phone a friend where. And I actually have some of those clients right now where it's like, I may only talk to them three hours a month but they just want like, they want a hotline of like, oh right, I've got X, Y, Z. That just happened. What do I do? Or how should I think about this? Or somebody just mentioned this. What do you think about it? And I think that's going to become a lot more prevalent.
[00:37:20] Speaker C: Yeah, it is, I agree.
And I mean I, as an entrepreneur that I'm like rooting for all the entrepreneurs that are out there.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:28] Speaker C: You know, I love it. And again I mentioned earlier that AI is helping that. But you're getting paid for your advice. But yeah, companies are definitely, you know, the market's shifting that way quickly but it's good, it's good to see and things like that.
[00:37:44] Speaker B: So, so I think it's a good time to start, you know, the fast money here, if that works for you.
Yep, on the clock. Here we go. So what do you think's the most underrated workday feature for HR ops?
[00:38:00] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's the basics. Right. I feel like, and this goes, it actually ties into everything else we've been talking about. I feel like there's a lot of distraction around the bright and shiny of I want AI, I want this, I want that. But it's, I find so many of my conversations it's, do you have your contingent workers in the system? Well, no, never done that. And you know, it's the basics of like, are your BPs working? Are you focused on roles and responsibilities? Are those optimized? I love Request framework, which sounds insane, but I love it because it gets HR out of so many things because it can be so flexible and so dynamic. And then you set it up and you walk away and you're done and you don't get the request for reports and stuff like that of like, well, this person changed job. Does their, you know, change their job? Does their security need to be updated in some random downstream system?
You can just automate all of that with request framework and worksheets. I say to my teams all the time, like work Lazy. Like don't, you know, get in, get out.
[00:39:06] Speaker C: Say that again. Work lazy.
[00:39:08] Speaker A: I would say work lazy. Like don't, you know, make it the laziest solution possible so that it just works and you don't have to be a part of it.
[00:39:16] Speaker C: I got it.
[00:39:18] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, don't over complicate and don't involve yourself where you don't need to be involved. And I love request framework and worksheets. The combination of the worksheets I have a love hate relationship with too, because sometimes they crash. But if you use it right and you have it constrained only to a set population, it works great. And then it, it keeps, it keeps all that stuff out of.
[00:39:38] Speaker C: Out of HR ops, all these love hate relationships.
[00:39:42] Speaker A: I know a lot.
[00:39:45] Speaker C: It's true, though. It's true. All right. A process that you would eliminate if you could just data, for sure.
[00:39:53] Speaker A: Data conversion, data verification. I want a bot that's just going to scrub and clean everything and put it where it needs to go. The sooner I get that off of, you know, I've spent so much time living in pivot tables and vlookups and, you know, oh, is this work location aligned with their home address to get a new system loaded and getting rid of all of that would be fantastic. There's no value in that work.
[00:40:19] Speaker C: Oh, vlookups.
[00:40:22] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:40:24] Speaker C: Good times. All right, so this year of enlightenment, or year and a half of enlightenment, what's a book that people in HR tech should read this year?
[00:40:32] Speaker A: Yeah, so it's funny because it's actually like very much aligned with a conversation we've been having, but the book I just bought is more. More human. So how the power of AI can transform the way you lead. I've got it sitting here, actually.
Got it. I think that human component can't be replaced. Right. It's those knowledge workers. It's the strategy, it's the creativity, it's the empathy, it's, you know, the relationships. And I think leaning hard into that not only enables you as a leader, but I think it also brings that. That 25% that AI isn't going to replicate to your function.
[00:41:14] Speaker C: No, that's good.
[00:41:15] Speaker B: All right, I got the next question.
What's. What's one belief that's helped you stay grounded? Rebecca?
[00:41:23] Speaker A: That's a good one. I think the piece that's probably always kind of brought me back is, you know, when I have my days of panic of like, oh, my God, no one's ever going to hire me again, this too will pass. And you know, you get through to the other side, I'll always double down on myself and have, you know, confidence in my own, I don't know, like, ability to survive. I guess one of the. One of the leaders that I've worked with in the past would, you know, always use the word grit. I've been called gritty. I've been called scrappy a lot, you know, a lot of those types of things. And I think that's. I have to stay focused on that and know that I always find a way to, you know, figure something out. Whether that's business, find another client, whether that's a new idea, whether that's, you know, delivering a project, staying, you know, staying focused on my own capabilities. It's so easy to question and spiral.
But that always, you know, that always kind of reminds myself that I'll get through it.
[00:42:26] Speaker B: Bet on yourself.
[00:42:28] Speaker A: Yeah, well.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: And last question of Barrel Rush is. I gotta say, it's my favorite question.
So what.
What is your go to song? If you're maybe having a tough day or just need a little extra motivation, you know, what is that song that you. You have to play?
[00:42:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I really don't have one because so much of it depends on kind of what I'm dealing with. Of like, if I'm trying to amp myself up or something. But I'm definitely a. You know, I love my 90s music. I love the early 2000s. Like if I really got done with a hard conversation or if I'm preparing for a really hard conversation, I tend to. My husband always calls it the angry music. So I go for like my, like, you know, really hard hitting. So it gets my blood pumping. So it's more of like the hard rock or like those.
[00:43:14] Speaker C: First song you'd go to in Spotify.
[00:43:17] Speaker A: I don't actually use Spotify, but I.
Yeah, I. I don't. I actually don't have one.
[00:43:23] Speaker B: Hard rock, Hard rocks.
[00:43:25] Speaker A: I go for my anger.
[00:43:26] Speaker B: What about a favorite band? The Hair Band? Was that in the 80s 90s? Good, good old rock. Hard rock band.
[00:43:32] Speaker C: 90S was grunge, wasn't it, Carlos?
[00:43:35] Speaker B: Just staying in the barrel. This is the biggest wave ever.
[00:43:39] Speaker C: I don't know, I'm just curious whether we keep this in or not. It was like, you know, a favorite concert.
[00:43:44] Speaker A: That's a really good question. I.
The last concert I saw was Cake, which was super cool. That was back. That was like. And that was just a couple months ago. And that. That was fun because it definitely took me. Took me back to that time frame too. So I'll go with that. It was, it was nice. Now I've got kids, I don't get out. I don't get let out much. So I'll take the time when I get it.
[00:44:08] Speaker C: I love it. I love it.
Nikki, what was your favorite concert?
[00:44:12] Speaker B: Favorite concert? Yeah, it was my first concert. I am showing my age. Oh, well, it is what it is.
The Jackson 5 was my favorite and first concert. I was about 9 years old and stood on the chair with my brother and I was a dancing machine.
It was a fabulous concert.
[00:44:33] Speaker C: I see what you did there.
That is so funny. I love it.
[00:44:38] Speaker A: It's so fun.
[00:44:38] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:39] Speaker A: What about yours, Carla?
[00:44:41] Speaker C: Mine's probably, I'd say my favorite's Tina Turner. I've seen her several times. Oh, Tina Turner.
[00:44:48] Speaker B: She was amazing.
[00:44:50] Speaker C: Yeah, she's fantastic.
[00:44:52] Speaker B: There have been so many grit, right? Grit.
[00:44:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
Theoret's back.
[00:44:57] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:44:58] Speaker B: Redefining yourself. I mean, epitome.
[00:45:01] Speaker A: Right?
[00:45:02] Speaker C: Right. Yeah, exactly.
[00:45:03] Speaker A: I love that. That's awesome.
[00:45:05] Speaker C: I love it. Well, you made it through the. You made it through the barrel rush, so.
But you know, I just want to thank you so much and I'm so glad again that the love hate relationship, it's the have that with LinkedIn. I know this was a love, a good. You know, I loved seeing this post again. It was just genuine and the feeling around it and obviously it resonated with. With other people and. And you alluded to this even earlier.
It. You know, we've been beating this drum is with. In a world full of AI generated everything.
Your story, your story is the only thing that you know you have and that's what that did and it obviously impacted other people and you know, it just was so powerful. So thank you so much for, for doing that and I'm just so glad I ran across it.
[00:46:01] Speaker A: Yeah, thanks for having me. This is, this is really cool.
[00:46:04] Speaker B: It's been great, great meeting you and spending time with you this afternoon and can't wait to see all the incredible success you continue to have in your company and your travels and non profits and volunteering. You can have pretty busy schedule there.
[00:46:20] Speaker A: Thank you both so much.
[00:46:22] Speaker B: It was great. Enjoyed it.
Thank you again for sharing your story and your insight. We've got more conversations like this coming and we're also putting the finishing touches on something that's never been done before out in the ecosystem. We'll be sharing those details very soon and if you're headed to Workday Rising, let us know. It'd be great to meet up and if there's a topic you'd like us to cover, or a guest you'd like to hear from, Just reach out to Carla or me directly and make sure to follow the show so you don't miss what's next and leave us that review. It really helps others find us. Thanks again for tuning in and for letting us help you ride the workday wave.
